NYRR puts on quality events. Is its 10K better or worse than anyone else’s? Objectively speaking, probably worse:
- The Crowds. As I’ve aged and, more importantly, slowed, I find myself farther and farther back. I pretty much only run Club races, which are denser at the front than other races, and finishing between 200th and 250th. On the course, it’s congested. Not overly so, but enough to be annoying. I can’t imagine what it’s like behind me.
- The Corrals. NYRR has done a good job of segregating runners by ability, at least based on past, if stale, racing-times. One has to get into one’s corral, however, about 15 minutes before the start. I speak of the blue corral. I don’t know how much more congested things get behind, but it can’t be better. So one is locked into a bunch of people, with little room to move. This is especially bad in cold and wet weather when in just a singlet or even a single long-sleeve layer in January and in hot, sunny weather when you’re exposed to the sun.
- Limited Warm-Up. Since one must be in the corral so early, one must just stand for the final 15 minutes before the start. This works nicely to defuse one’s enthusiasm for the race-to-come, in addition to whatever physical things that happen.
- Capping. This is actually a good thing. Unless you want to run a race and it’s closed to you. But, apropos to the above, Scotland was capped and still had 8,500 finishers.
On the plus side:
- Promptness. The races start on time.
- Certification. The course is generally certified. I’ve noticed, though, that the cones marking the courses in Central Park seem to be randomly placed. A little research suggests that the course is in fact measured by the rec lane and 1/2 of the center lane. But a look at USATF’s course-certification site shows few NYRR courses, and many of the ones there are quite old. I couldn’t, for example, find the course used for the Scotland Run or Healthy-Kidney 10Ks. (Here’s the list of certified courses in New York, New York.)
- Timing. Races are timed by D- or B-tags and get up promptly.
- Price. Races are not expensive, at least for NYRR-members who register early.
- Ease-of-Access. If you live in Manhattan, the races are easy to get to. For me, in Westchester, I find it easy enough to drive and park at Marcus Garvey Park and either jog or take the subway to the start.
- Baggage check. You can check your bags.
On the I-could-go-either-way side:
- The giving of awards at the race doesn’t seem to happen. So one needn’t wait around and feel obligated to wait around. Instead one can go to NYRR after the race, for 30 days, and pick it up. The awards, however, are pretty much the same for each race, a bit of plexiglass that is recycled if not picked up. The exception is the Marathon, for which one gets a Tiffany plate. But even that, in my experience, isn’t mailed; it has to be picked up.
My alternate universe is local races in Westchester, but I’m sure it’s like this pretty much everywhere. Take this Sunday. Although I won’t be running it, the Rye Derby is a 5-miler. Nice crowd, with some über-fast people at the front. You can park nearby (there’s no baggage-check so that’s where you put your stuff), jog around and do some strides right before the start, people pretty much line up where they’re supposed to, horn goes, splits at every mile, non-certified but fairly accurate (I think) course, and water stops. Now Rye is one of the top races in Westchester, but most of this stuff appears at most of our races.
Wow. It seems pretty straight-forward. Why would I want to put up with the hassle that unavoidably characterizes NYRR races — and because it’s inevitable it’s not NYRR’s fault — when I can the same thing elsewhere? For me, that reason is simple, the Club series. It’s where the top local guys in my age-group show up. Which explains why I don’t particularly care about the non-Club NYRR races.
But but-for the Club series, I wouldn’t bother.
Now there are some who will say that NYRR bears some responsibility, that’s it’s 9 + 1 program has created artificial demand and thus artificial congestion. Perhaps. In the end, though, it is what it is. Sadly I think that NYRR has a mission that differs from that of NYRRC. I’ll get into that some other time.
RunWestchester 
14 comments
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April 30, 2011 at 5:06 pm
Stephane
I miss the time when you could always register at the last minute at any race. The competition is certainly there, the hype too thanks to the gentrification of the running community.
April 30, 2011 at 8:35 pm
Mark Thompson
I run a few of them each year. One reason is that there are not a lot of 10Ks & 15Ks here in the burbs, so NYRR is where I can find them, particularly in the winter months. I’ve also run the Manhattan Half Marathon, since that’s the only half marathon around in January. Speaking of which, that was my worst experience in a corral. Standing around in 14 degree weather waiting for the horn to go off was not fun. It’s also a shame that NYRR recently moved the Queens & Bronx Half Marathons to the summer months. Try standing in a corral & then running 13.1 miles in 88 degree heat. I’ll never do that again.
May 1, 2011 at 4:08 pm
nyflygirl
Well, for those of us local midpackers who want to run NYCM-the 9+1, hence running NYRR races, is our only way in. Chances for locals in the lottery are slim to none, and the qualifying times are not in reach for everyone (even with my best half ever, I was less than a minute off)
May 1, 2011 at 9:33 pm
Dave B
Why do I run NYRRC races? Simple: I can easily get to them by mass transit. Like many people in the NYC area, I don’t have a car. There are probably some great races within 20 miles of my home, but if I can’t get a ride to them or get there by mass transit (which has infrequent or nonexistent service early on weekend mornings), they might as well be in Idaho.
May 2, 2011 at 11:38 am
stephanie
NYRR races have gotten out of hand – the organization is much worse than lets say 5 years ago. No one checks the corrals, so you see people in yours that totally don’t belong. Warming up can be a challenge, to! Having done tons of those races I’m kinda done. I do prefer smaller races no doubt about it.
May 3, 2011 at 4:07 am
Ewen
I’ll be looking for an alternative when I’m there in July.
May 4, 2011 at 10:41 am
Brenn
The prompt race results and the ability to compare the results to prior performances on the nyrr website is a plus. Despite the crowding, I like having a bunch of people to run against. But the primary reason I run nyrr races is simply because they are there. I don’t think runners generally think too deeply about the organization that puts them on.
May 6, 2011 at 2:58 pm
Robert James Reese
When I first arrived in NYC, I was a big fan of NYRR races. They seemed so much better organized and efficient than any of the small races back home that I had run. I still think think that they excel in those aspects, but after a while, the crowds, corrals, pricing, etc. take their toll and the races become much less exciting. I agreet with you that the club series is a great idea of theirs and it’s fun being able to participate now (even though I never actually score for our team).
May 15, 2011 at 4:46 pm
steve lastoe
NYRR’s primary mission is to get as many runner’s out there as possible. This is a laudable goal and one they have well accomplished. At the same time, they have made 9+1 the method for local runners to get into the marathon – a solution I happen to like.
Unfortunately, the price that local runners pay for this is that their races are horribly overcrowded. I’m not so sure this is something that can or should be rectified. Smarter people than me should determine the value of local resources like Central Park.
However, as NYCRUNS begins to produce it’s own races, one way I look at that mission is that we want to reach people that are running and help them become runners (if they aren’t already). Well managed races, clubs, knowledgeable support, and community are the hallmarks of good running imho.
May 15, 2011 at 9:34 pm
Episode 30: A Tale Of Two NYC Parks: Forest and Central | The New York Running Show
[…] And Joe mentioned a post he did: Why Would Anyone Run An NYRR Race? […]
September 4, 2012 at 9:06 pm
cg9m
oh, when don’t i have a lot of thoughts…
when i first ran (‘raced’ in my apparently dubious op) rye derby a few years ago, i biked to the start. it was about a ten mile bike ride. i was training for my first tri. i raced. i biked home. on my rudimentary mountain bike. on which i also ‘raced’ harriman a few weeks later…i didn’t know about ‘slicks’ (tires) yet. it was my best ever time on that (rye) course. make of it what you will.
ah, rye derby…i always lined up at the vveeerrry back of that race. it cost me (by my watch) about ~30s each time i ‘raced’ it (incl the year i was 7 mo’s preggers, and the year after, when i ran mortifyingly *slower* trying to get back in shape, and w/a torn pelvic joint and ‘runner’s knees’). that ~30s is the extra penalty us “slow-people-who-don’t-train-hard-enough” incur for not being rude and not starting too far up in races w/no start mat. but i guess we haven’t earned the right to care about our times…
while i love the spirit of small-town races, i’ve also (of late, and having come to it from reading all the blogs/tweets from competitive people about nyrr races, and having participated in a small number myself) come to see (and maybe it was a hallucination) a tiny summer race series held near where i live now as being a microcosm of the massive, out-of-control anarchy that it seems the nyc marathon has become.
‘my’ race series? a local 5k held weekly in the evening, $5 for members of the club who sponsors the race, $10 for non. no shirts. there’s a clock at the finish. there’s a water stop somewhere in the middle, depending on which way they decide to run the course. there’s a 200 yd & a 1 mile race for kids prior. so, it has the trappings of a community event. last year, when i was sick-and-injured, i got passed by moms pushing jogging strollers. incidentally, have you ever tried to run, much less race, pushing a wheelbarrow with a 50 lb load in it? just curious. this year, tho, they didn’t allow jogging strollers. i’m not sure why as the race is never over 200 people, and not even 100 when the weather’s bad. i even won my age group! twice! i didn’t know til the results were posted of course. and imo, if a 25-6ish 5k wins an age group award, being kind- even ‘masters-sub 60 years’, the race is a ‘fun run’. so i have to assume the ‘serious’ complained. and they are serious at the front. i’ve dubbed them ‘piranhas’. they stroll about, looking mean and evil, like they want to have you for breakfast. i even had a race organizer come up recently (actually, this has happened twice, different volunteers) and say, ‘wow! you look really fit! like you could win the race!’ he meant it as a compliment. i was depressed (both at my speed, and that i don’t want to have to be that sort of person to be fast…to the latter, i know you don’t have to be…there is hope for humanity yet?)
but i’ve gotten a ton of annoying comments every time i’ve participated in this series. from the spectator a year ago who was screaming at me to pass a father/daughter team (she looked, oh, about 10) and shouting, ‘catch her! catch her! you can do it! you’re the next woman!’ i think i broke 29 that race….(truth- i almost stopped and gave the guy a piece of my mind- what sort of jerk am i to be trying to upstage a 10-year-old??!! even if i *were* competitive). i didn’t. i’ve regretted not doing so. this year, i had a middle-aged loudmouth (why are there so many of them who run my pace???) screaming at a woman ahead of us (maybe they were teammates) to catch two guys ahead of her. she was about ~300m behind them. even usain bolt wouldn’t have caught them. if i’d been her, i’d have wanted to smack him. so much tension. a tiny race. with no start mat.
what of nycm? the behemoth. based on the above, i think it’s impossible to satisfy everyone. my thoughts on the tiny race series were that they should have two separate adult starts. based on philosophy. one for people who wanted to race each other, and that’s their motivation. the other for the rest of us (and i do know there are a lot like me) who want to race for fitness, or against the clock. every race i do, i try to improve, when i know i can. and that depends on where i am in terms of fitness and health. i work really hard for that. but (and i laugh as i type this), i really have no clue who’s ahead of me or around me on the whole. i’ve noted that in recent results after the fact. i’d make a terrible eyewitness.
to nycm. i realize my op’s are totally insignificant to those making decisions. but i’ll give them anyway. why not have two races? one for anyone who quals for sub-3 on sat, and everyone else on sunday? given the number of people who can run sub-3, it’s probably not a big deal to have two races. a lot of cities even offer a half marathon the day before or after, now. or have the faster people start a few hours earlier- even 4 am..i’ve thought that would be a good thing for small town races, too- competitive people often like early starts anyway. have them run their race 15-30 min prior to the fitness crowd. (we’d appreciate the delay, in truth).
earth-shattering, but maybe nycm needs a course change. i was thinking that yankee stadium would make a great finish. concession stands, decent restrooms, and a 50k capacity. looking at the course, it seems possible, still routing through central park, and keeping all the boroughs. i’m sure some would fuss about past records and time comparisons, etc. oh well. you can’t have everything. if you want 50k+ people in the race, the course has to be able to sustain it. IF i (had a gun to my head) chose a big marathon (i can’t run another one anyway from physical constraints), i’d pick los angeles. they start at dodger stadium. surfers may get a bad rap for anti-intellectualism, but they do know how to do a wave start. (and finish).
finally, and this is really in response to another post, but figure i’ll just write it all here…you are totally one of the (if not *the* most) dogmatic runner i’ve ever encountered. just a few eg’s would be your complaints about the westchester tri course, the whole mini 10k business (i’ll never run that event again, thanks to the hostility i read here), your wavering on women’s marathon records, and your obsession w/rules in general. i think that may well be the crux (or large part of) the issues i’ve had w/your op’s. you are all about rules and allow nothing for humanity. (or at least those of us who don’t fit your mold of ‘real runner’).
September 8, 2012 at 7:11 am
JoeGarland
I am dogmatic, I’ll grant you that. I don’t know that the label can be applied though to two posts that were expressly ambiguous, i.e., those about women and the marathon-record and the Mini. In both cases, I raised questions based upon what I thought women might think, such as there’s something demeaning about a women’s record being dependent on a man to achieve. But in the end conceded that if women don’t care about these aspects, why should I.
As to the rules, you make the point early that there are the serious and the not-so-much. So it’s important that things like courses are properly set-up if only for the serious folks. If it’s a race, that’s the least one can expect. Many or most may not care, but it’s important for those who do and it seems to me that we should not turn every “race” into a “fun run”. Even these huge races have both types of runners and there’s no reason they can’t continue to co-exist.
Although I consider myself competitive, it is with myself. I may try to pick off people late in a race, but that really doesn’t matter much. I often say something encouraging to someone I catch, such as “come on, almost there” or “this is the last hill”. I remember catching someone about 1/2 mile from the end of the Mam’k 5-miler and saying, referring to the guy ahead, “we can catch that guy” (we didn’t).
Do I think it’s a penalty to those who start where they should? Absolutely. Other than using a chip, I don’t know what alternative there is.
September 26, 2012 at 9:56 pm
cg9m
i read somewhere recently that there were ‘rabbits’ for the men trying to go sub-4 back in the day. why gender should matter for that, i have no clue. (and how would you feel if women were inherently faster than men; ie, more likely, it’s just an historical bias?)
i was, in my usual overly-loquacious way, attempting to get to the point that most ‘races’ seem to have become ‘events’. and that’s the problem.
i will, in a rare moment, agree with you there (and i may be misquoting a bit here): “it’s a big tent”. i no longer remember the post, but you went on to say that you cared about people who showed up to really “race” but not those who were there “to finish” (by your standards), or for fitness or other reasons.
i think i touched on this on one of my innumerable other comments here on nyrr…they’ve got quite a crowd to please, and maybe should start looking at who’s participating and why. i know i’m one of the ‘lilliputians’ but that doesn’t mean my suggestions aren’t relevant (and i’ve said this in previous comments).
i think nyrr should divide its races in thirds. one third to ‘competitive’ folk. have race cutoff times, and make them ‘hard’- i don’t know, 21 for 5K, 45 10K, etc. it’s a democracy, have people vote, then implement. racing that ‘series’ would become a carrot for some, and preferred for others. then have the second tier of races be for the ‘fitness’ masses. maybe have an upper limit- ie, no one who runs sub-6 can participate. but also have a slower cutoff- like 1:15? 1:30? for 10k. again, a vote on limits. and finally, a third could be ‘fun runs’. and they’d include some longer races, like a half marathon- perhaps “more” as women tend to comprise the bulk of entries these days anyway. and (despite what i may personally feel on the subject) a lot of women seem to feel that they need to train to run ‘longer’ to be ‘thinner’, which is a priority in nyc and tri-state area. anyhow. in the final ‘fun run’ category, you’d welcome all paces. and charity runners. and strollers. and still have chip times. so goes my idea of a perfect world. or close to it.
November 16, 2013 at 10:08 am
tay
Agree with with you totally. I find the NYRR races nauseating. And And sorry to say that I finf the runners arrogant. The NYRR races were very close to taking away my love for running.