I have a pink cycling jersey. It’s quite bright and I love it because it’s the only shirt I have that has a full zipper in the front and late in a ride I could open it completely and it would flare behind me when I went downhill. Pink jersey, you could tell people thinking, but it is the color of the leader’s jersey in the Giro d’Italia, the maglia rosa.*
The memory of this jersey, which I haven’t been able to wear in nearly two years (my wife is sufficiently concerned that I’ll fall off that no-biking-for-me), came to me as I thought of triathletes. They wear funny stuff. But so do I. Among the things I’ve been known to wear while running: reflective vest, blinking lights, headlamp, the-white-stuff-on-the-nose-to-protect-from-the-sun, compression shorts, arm-warmers, tights, short shorts, a Garmin, RoadID. So on the glass-houses analogy, I will not make fun of triathletes for their zippered tops and compression shorts. Actually, I doubt that I’ve ever made fun of external stuff like that.
I will frown upon the notion of carrying children across the finish line.
An upside of the recent kerfuffle was that I got a nice response to my why-a-tri? post. Iain from Devon (I’ve seen some of the stuff he does and he is quite modest with the I’m-not-a-serious-athlete rubbish — his motto: “Somehow I’ve qualified for Ironman Hawaii 2010. Now I need to train!!” — but he otherwise speaks truly) wrote:
- Hi Joe, as you’ve asked me to pop over and give you my thoughts I’m happy to oblige.
Just to put you in the picture though ………. I’m far from a serious athlete. I’m not coached, I don’t train in 4 week blocks, cycles or macro-cycles. For the effort I put in I’d be classed as one of the ‘arm-wavers’ who crosses the line happy with their day but who will probably never race the the best of their ability.
I can see why you have the thought you do, it’s not your sport. You’re a competitive runner but if you turned up at a triathlon you’d get your butt kicked. There’s a reason for that and it’s the reason I’m not sure I can give my thoughts. It’s because they are totally different sports. Triathlon is not running, it’s not cycling and it’s not swimming, it’s triathlon an individual sport in it’s own right. The idea is the same as any other ‘race’ and that’s to hit the Finish line as soon as possible. Does anybody ask Tom Pappas or Bryan Clay why they do the Decathlon instead of just one event?
To put it in perspective comparing Triathletes to Runners is like comparing Usain Bolt to Ryan Hall. Their events are a world apart in the same way as Triathlon and running are a world apart. Usain Bolt’s training will bear no resemblence to Ryan Hall’s. The ‘gut-wrenching’ power sprint training compared to the ‘comfort zone’ marathon training.
The stuff you see on TV of course is mostly down to how the TV companies want to portray things. You mentioned Ironman China which I know was the one with the winner walking (I’m a Tri nerd)[**], but you didn’t mention that by the time the athletes reached the run course on that day the temperature was over 40C/105F; how many of us have run a Marathon in those temps especially with 6hrs of racing already in the legs? Ignore the swim/bike and just think of the time out there. Would you have to walk if you ran a 100mile race in that heat?
One thing I have heard from some of the A-type personalities in the sport is that when you’re purely a runner and you get injured then you’re screwed. Many of these can’t take being laid off from excercise to the swim or bike and the interest in the sport grows from there.
I started to respond. I was going to set him straight. He did not answer my core question, i.e., if one must, as I believe, spend a good six days a week for four or five months running to prepare to race a marathon how can one cut down on the running to allow for the biking and the swimming and still expect to be the best one can be?
Thinking as I was writing (as I sometimes do, evidence to the contrary notwithstanding) I realized that there was a fallacy in my argument. I’m looking at it from the perspective of a runner. But a stand-alone marathon is not the same as a marathon in a triathlon. Iain’s point.
The old joke: Two guys are at a campsite and a bear appears. One guy rushes to put on his sneakers. The other guy laughs, “You don’t think you’re going to outrun the bear do you?” “I don’t have to outrun the bear?”
So I think we can agree that triathletes engage in a different sport and leave it at that.
Well, not quite. Iain confesses that he “will probably never race the the best of [his] ability.” Is that not the rub? Again, he seems to be training pretty hard, but if he says even that does not allow him to approach his potential how is one supposed to? In this, it seems so much easier for a runner, with the six-days-a-week, etc. training, getting regularly over 60 miles a week. That was the point I was trying to make.
But then one can say, “60 miles a week? You’ll do better at 70, at 80,” and that’s true. I use that as a minimum, and part of my do-I-do-NY dilemma is based upon whether I am willing to put in solid 70 mile weeks in September. And I assume that much the same holds true for tris, in which the IM is the glory event but there’s plenty to be said for the shorter stuff, as noted in a Competitors show with members of the US Triathlon Team (who don’t do IMs).
Let’s compromise. Triathloning is a different sport from running, although it shares certain characteristics. Solo efforts to build speed and endurance, a focus on how quickly one gets from point A to point B.*** The sports are cousins, and not too distant. The same core test applies to participants: if you’re working hard, busting your butt to improve your speed and your endurance, your swimming stroke and your bike handling, you’re my cousin. If you throw your arms up when you finish, you’re still family.
If you do just enough to finish, a triathlon or a marathon, if you’re in it simply for the experience, taking four hours to do a marathon that you could do in 3:30 had you trained for it, that’s great. For those who feel it necessary to assess their performances by how many people they beat, it just inflates the results. But I don’t care about you. I do care for and admire the folks I know, Pascal, DB, JLF as three, who put in the work for their tris. I might wish they focused on running, but they’ve been great running teammates for me and they like getting up before dawn to go out on their bikes in the rain and the cold. I don’t hold it against them, and I hope that they don’t hold against me the fact that I don’t.
And now I can turn my attention to all the bloggers I know who are doing Boston.
* This puts me in mind of TV coverage of cycling. I’ve watched a few races so far — Milan-San Remo, Tour of the Basque, Tour of Flanders — and heard both the Versus pair of of Phil Liggett and Paul Sherwen and Universal Sports’ Steve Schlanger and Todd Gogulski and boy do I prefer the latter, who I hope will do the Giro this year (as they did last). I realize Liggett’s an icon, but I think the others provide much more solid information.
Andy Hampsten is the only American to win the Maglia Rosa. One of my favorite riders, he was Greg Lemond’s chief lieutenant in the 1985 and 1986 Tourd de France. John Wilcockson wrote a two-parter, one, two, on Hampsten’s 1988 Giro win for Velonews. Return
** Actually I know nothing about Ironman China. From what he says, he seems to be referring to one of the videos we’ve all seen of someone (or in one case two women) collapsing shortly before the finish of an Ironman and struggling, struggling to get across the line. Perhaps it showed the winner walking. I have no issue with that. Indeed, I wouldn’t have soldiered on in such temperatures, which I know because I DNFed at the 1984 NYC Marathon, stopping at 19, in extreme heat, planning to do a back-up marathon in Baltimore 6 weeks later (a plan that went awry when my back went out doing speedwork up Cat Hill (I don’t know whether I waved back then but I sure do now)). Speaking of a winner’s walking, 1984 is the one in which the winner, Orlando Pizzolato, stopped like ten times. My guess is that someone was attributing to me inappropriate criticism of a brave act. I don’t think I’ve written a critical thing about the performance of any triathlete. Return
*** I will not, however, cede the point about the accuracy of courses, which I discussed in reference to my participation in the 2007 Westchester Tri.
Return
13 comments
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April 15, 2010 at 12:29 pm
runnermatt
Now that you’ve weighed in on tris, when is the joggling post?
BTW (as you know)- I think that Bolt and Hall actually do quite a bit of the same work. Intervals on the track and sprint accelerations are common to both disciplines
April 15, 2010 at 1:18 pm
joegarland
Matt, you really are a troublemaker. As I told JT, an attitude like that won’t get you invited to the campfire and marshmallow toasting at the vehicle transition area at the GMR.
April 15, 2010 at 12:59 pm
nyflygirl
I have great respect for triathletes. I’m out there every year at the NYC Tri cheering on teammates and friends during the run. I went up to Lake Placid one year to watch the Ironman and had a great time. My only issue is the constant “so, when are you going to get into multisport?” that i keep getting asked. Like since I’ve run a marathon, triathlons are the natural next step up. I don’t mind cross-training at all-it’s been determined that I need it in order to keep injuries away
But I like that I don’t have to stress about fitting in a swim workout and bike workout. And I’d prefer to better my marathon time, and even move down in distance and work on getting those times down rather than add 2 more sports in. Ain’t nothing wrong with that 
Oh-and on the topic of tri run courses being short, I know the one at the NYC Tri is notorious for that…I’ve seen people reporting “10K PRs” from that run leg…and one year, there was talk about one of the pros having a “record-setting run” on what I think was a really hot day.
April 15, 2010 at 1:42 pm
Iain
Ok. Quick one
You said – “If you do just enough to finish, a triathlon or a marathon, if you’re in it simply for the experience, taking four hours to do a marathon that you could do in 3:30 had you trained for it, that’s great. For those who feel it necessary to assess their performances by how many people they beat, it just inflates the results. But I don’t care about you.”
That’s me!!!
I’ve run a few sub 3hr Marathons but with coaching I might do 2:30, I’ve done a 9:40 Ironman but if I took the sport seriously I could probably go sub 9hrs…………. Please don’t stop caring though.
Ignore my times though, they’re down to my very fortunate natural ability. Here’s what I think is the difference. To you and many others it’s a sport, something with an definitive aim, to be the best you can be. To me and many others it’s a pastime, something we enjoy doing. If we were running a Marathon and came into the Finish straight side by side I’d gladly back off and let you cross the line first rather than ruin your finish line pic….. Ok, if we’re battling for the win it’s different, but I’m hardly likely to win a Marathon. I’ve never crossed a line and thrown up, needed an IV drip or been carted off to the medics with exhaustion and nor will I.
One other ‘small’ point to think about. Without all of the fun runners (joe joggers, charity runners, walkers, fitness chasers, weight loss runners and all those looking to just finish an event) paying their race entry fees then there wouldn’t be many events for the ‘racers’ to do. I think that for that reason alone we should encourage them all. When my girlfriend runs 5k in less than 45mins it means more to me than if I run a sub 3hr Marathon, she’s achieved and all I’ve done is run 26.2miles.
PS – Matt, you know that doing the same ‘disciplines’ doesn’t mean doing the same sessions. The distances, times, recovery’s will all be different and can you imagine Usain Bolt going out for a steady 20miler with Ryan
(I’d tell you I enjoy the podcast but I know you don’t like the backslapping).
Good Luck to all the Boston racers on Monday, I hope you all have PR’s and if not then I hope you all enjoy the experience.
Iain
April 15, 2010 at 2:28 pm
joegarland
Iain, obviously no one told you that for sub-2:30 it’s, how did Mark Knofler put it?, money for nothing, get your chicks for free. Makes you think, doesn’t it?
Thanks for your perspective; I hear you when you recognize that what lots of folks think is great is in large part genetic luck. Sometimes I wish I could not take racing so seriously, as such a test, and I often envy those who can. But I’m not wired that way.
I’ve added you to my must-read list, so I guess I do care.
April 15, 2010 at 4:00 pm
runnermatt
Iain,
True enough. I was merely reacting to the “bearing no resemblance” point. Interestingly, I think more than a few distance coaching are adopting some sprinter techniques with their athletes- Jay Johnson for example.
Regardless of your example, I do agree about the Tri being it’s own thing. (one I have a huge amount of respect for as I have noted, swimming is hard for me, let alone swimming to biking to running)
I’ve been on the end of of a Joe “you could do better with more training” message as well so, I know how it feels.
-M
April 15, 2010 at 6:58 pm
Mark Thompson
I ain’t got nothing against triathlons or triathletes. Wouldn’t mind trying a tri myself. But alas, I don’t have the thousands of dollars necessary in my bank account to buy a bike & all the other additional stuff you need to get to participate. Yesterday I spent $100 plus on a new pair of running shoes for training after Boston, & financially that will do for now.
April 16, 2010 at 3:23 pm
threlkeld
I can’t swim properly (I’m one of those people who does the “frog” stroke by default) and I’m a sissy when it comes to riding a bike in a group. So I give any triathlete enormous credit for biking bravery and swimming competence.
One thing I’ve never understood is why Kona is the championship locale. It’s always hot and humid and seems like a particularly cruel venue to choose, as just surviving the conditions (a la Badwater) becomes a key component of the event. No one can ever hope to perform at their best there. I can’t think of an equivalent in running — maybe holding the Olympic Trials in Yonkers in high summer (the famous Buddy Edelin victory) comes closest.
April 16, 2010 at 3:59 pm
joegarland
In a sense, doing Kona is an historical accident. It’s where the sport began. Hence it was a natural place for the world championship. And I would think part of its attraction is the degree-of-difficulty. Like New York, if you can make it there, you can, etc.
In a sense it is like Boston, which is not a particularly good course — early downhills, logistical nightmares, narrow road at start — but it’s the old man and has the tradition as a go-to event. Yonkers, of course, is the second oldest and it too has practical course issues, in its case the hills. (For the information of those who don’t live in Westchester, where Yonkers is, the County is largely defined by north-south valleys but large hills between them, especially to the western side of the County. It is really hard to go 26+ miles in Yonkers without encountering at least one major climb, and the Yonkers Marathon was even tougher when Buddy Edelen ran it than it is today. Edelen won that race in 2:24:26, according to SI, by four miles. Here’s a nice review of the hard-to-get biography of Edelen.)
Re the bike, in Kona (and I assume other IMs), you can’t ride in a group. Given the benefits of drafting, there are rules regarding how close to another biker you can be and how quickly you must pass another biker, which becomes less strict simply as a practical matter the farther back you go. I’ve heard of participants in the NY Tri, the bike portion of which goes up and down the Henry Hudson Parkway, complaining of slower bikers staying to the left and not moving over, thereby making overpassing difficult. Like on the LIE.
Other tris, including I believe the Olympics, allow for group riding. I find this absurd because what happens is the first group out of the water form a pack and it’s almost impossible for someone who’s not in it to catch the leaders. If you have a bad swim, you have little shot of winning.
Riding in a pack is a huge advantage. Someone in the Tour de France once described what happens if you’re in the peloton and you stop peddling: you shoot out the back like a watermelon seed. I’ve experienced this; you get drop and the pack is gone and you’ll never get back.
Riding in the pack is also not as hard as it looks. I road in Central Park in my cycling days. I freaked out the first few times, concentrating on my bike and those around me. After a few times, though, it becomes natural and you can chat with the folks near you as you would in a running group, all the while tooling around the Park. When the pace picks up, however, things get real quiet (except for the occasional shout about an ill-advised move by a newbie to the left or right). Running has nothing like the feeling of going really fast in a big gear, thighs burning from the strain, taking your turn at the front before pulling out, mastering your bike, the air whistling around you. Hoping wheels don’t touch and bodies don’t fly.
April 17, 2010 at 6:14 am
Ewen
The Olympics allow group riding Joe, as do ‘Olympic distance’ events for professional triathletes. I think allowing group riding was a condition of the sport becoming an Olympic sport. The IM events and ‘amateur’ events don’t allow group riding, so in that respect they’re probably a better test of the all-round triathlete. Olympic triathlons are usually won by the best runners who are good enough swimmers to join the main peloton of riders.
I’ll side with the camp that trains to get at least close to the best of their ability. I don’t see how an amateur triathlete can do that (and still be working a full-time job). There aren’t enough hours in the day. With amateur runners it is possible — Derek Clayton worked full time, ran twice a day, and raced a marathon in 2:08:34.
September 7, 2010 at 8:26 am
Tough Guys « RunWestchester
[...] not ever doing this. Not to worry. This race, though, strikes me as something of an anti-tri, a grass-roots answer to the more [...]
December 24, 2010 at 1:08 am
cg9m
just curious..what exactly was it about my training for an olympic tri and/or for marathon that you found lacking to ‘race’ the respective distances?
December 24, 2010 at 11:34 am
JoeGarland
All I know of your training is your insistence here that it was restricted by your time and physical restraints and that it fell well short of my “standard” for the sine qua non of “racing” a marathon. As to a tri, as I admit I have no idea what needs be done, the point of my earlier post, in which we had yet another of these backs-and-forths in the comments, to which I refer you.